<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The digital demise of professional photographers</title>
	<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: bebe</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25582</link>
		<author>bebe</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 01:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25582</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Ross, I am still in favor of a manual camera, setting the proper lightning, focusing on my own, etc...the accomplishment is there when you've taken a good shot. Although I also have a DSLR now, I am not putting all my works on it, because for me there is an 'imperfection' when you are using one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Ross, I am still in favor of a manual camera, setting the proper lightning, focusing on my own, etc&#8230;the accomplishment is there when you&#8217;ve taken a good shot. Although I also have a DSLR now, I am not putting all my works on it, because for me there is an &#8216;imperfection&#8217; when you are using one.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25582', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ross Allchorn</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25395</link>
		<author>Ross Allchorn</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25395</guid>
		<description>Pete, that is why one needs to remain flexible. I'm not sad. Are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete, that is why one needs to remain flexible. I&#8217;m not sad. Are you?
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25395', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pete ess</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25394</link>
		<author>pete ess</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25394</guid>
		<description>You're sad? You shoulda seen the Worshipful Company of Cobblers (by Appointment to Her Royal Majesty) when riff raff started automating the making of shoes . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re sad? You shoulda seen the Worshipful Company of Cobblers (by Appointment to Her Royal Majesty) when riff raff started automating the making of shoes . . .
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25394', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25388</link>
		<author>Gerry</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25388</guid>
		<description>"you’ll realise that it doesn’t make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr"

I'd love to make that!  But right now, if I do a quater of that, I'm doing well.  After spending over R100k on equipment, thats a lot of hours before I make a profit!

But I'm getting there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you’ll realise that it doesn’t make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to make that!  But right now, if I do a quater of that, I&#8217;m doing well.  After spending over R100k on equipment, thats a lot of hours before I make a profit!</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m getting there!
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25388', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ross Allchorn</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25385</link>
		<author>Ross Allchorn</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25385</guid>
		<description>Hi April, yeah, the website industry is also feeling this sort of effect. I know because that is 90% of my work, but as you say, it's a bit harder to fake knowing what you're doing, and eventually the truth will become apparent.

About my blog taking food from Journos... hmmm, I guess the same can be said about this blog. And iStockphoto from commission photographers. I think there are different market segments for a reason, and as such I don't feel guilty about blogging about my work, for my clients and for free. The profit comes to me when my clients do well, and reward me by requesting more services of me.

The prices photographers charge are often taken from their experience. I know some guys that won't get out of bed in the morning for less than R20,000. They have 30yrs experience and their equipment is up to date, insured and they know how to use it better than most.

Jensen Button gets paid more by Virgin to race his F1 car than Frikkie van der Merwe gets to race his GoKart at the buzzy circuit for a reason. Skill, experience, and consistent results. Okay, maybe Button was a bad example, but you catch my drift I'm sure.

Have you ever seen a complex breakdown of a photographer's costs? If you take everything into consideration, and you're shooting with a top of the range Canon / Nikon (lets not even talk Hasselblad for now) alongside the laptops, cards, professional rigging, lighting, reflectors, umbrellas, strobes etc. and calculate the insurance needed to take it out the door, plus everything else... you'll realise that it doesn't make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr, and then you need to make a profit too...

Simple economics, and perhaps standing back and establishing if you're comparing apples to bananas or if they're the same fruit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi April, yeah, the website industry is also feeling this sort of effect. I know because that is 90% of my work, but as you say, it&#8217;s a bit harder to fake knowing what you&#8217;re doing, and eventually the truth will become apparent.</p>
<p>About my blog taking food from Journos&#8230; hmmm, I guess the same can be said about this blog. And iStockphoto from commission photographers. I think there are different market segments for a reason, and as such I don&#8217;t feel guilty about blogging about my work, for my clients and for free. The profit comes to me when my clients do well, and reward me by requesting more services of me.</p>
<p>The prices photographers charge are often taken from their experience. I know some guys that won&#8217;t get out of bed in the morning for less than R20,000. They have 30yrs experience and their equipment is up to date, insured and they know how to use it better than most.</p>
<p>Jensen Button gets paid more by Virgin to race his F1 car than Frikkie van der Merwe gets to race his GoKart at the buzzy circuit for a reason. Skill, experience, and consistent results. Okay, maybe Button was a bad example, but you catch my drift I&#8217;m sure.</p>
<p>Have you ever seen a complex breakdown of a photographer&#8217;s costs? If you take everything into consideration, and you&#8217;re shooting with a top of the range Canon / Nikon (lets not even talk Hasselblad for now) alongside the laptops, cards, professional rigging, lighting, reflectors, umbrellas, strobes etc. and calculate the insurance needed to take it out the door, plus everything else&#8230; you&#8217;ll realise that it doesn&#8217;t make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr, and then you need to make a profit too&#8230;</p>
<p>Simple economics, and perhaps standing back and establishing if you&#8217;re comparing apples to bananas or if they&#8217;re the same fruit.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25385', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: April</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25381</link>
		<author>April</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25381</guid>
		<description>I have the same problem with websites. I give a quote for professional design and development, and I'm trumped by a student who knows frontpage. Usually a relative of the business owner. 

You lose out once, but after a while the client returns because the kid has lost and no-one can update the website. Luckily website have a long term nature, unlike photos. And Ross, is your free blog not taking a food of the mouth of a professional degreed journalist? 

That said - I am always horrified by the prices that the professional photographers charge. 50% of shoots don't require any specialised knowledge of composition or lighting. Because of the nature of photography and digital media, usually if you take enough pictures in different conditions you will by chance end up with something good. Many client's don't need consistency, they need one good picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the same problem with websites. I give a quote for professional design and development, and I&#8217;m trumped by a student who knows frontpage. Usually a relative of the business owner. </p>
<p>You lose out once, but after a while the client returns because the kid has lost and no-one can update the website. Luckily website have a long term nature, unlike photos. And Ross, is your free blog not taking a food of the mouth of a professional degreed journalist? </p>
<p>That said - I am always horrified by the prices that the professional photographers charge. 50% of shoots don&#8217;t require any specialised knowledge of composition or lighting. Because of the nature of photography and digital media, usually if you take enough pictures in different conditions you will by chance end up with something good. Many client&#8217;s don&#8217;t need consistency, they need one good picture.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25381', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25366</link>
		<author>Gerry</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 05:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25366</guid>
		<description>Liam – the “measurable minimum requirement” in this industry, as someone said, is the “form factor”.  The analogy with pro golfers I find very, very apt.  while a good amateur can get a lucky hole in one, maybe even win a tournament, it’s the Tigers and the Ernies of this world that keeps producing 95% of the time.  

the point still is if the pro-tog can keep his standard to a certain minimum, and that minimum is appreciably above average (even by the uneducated public), then that tog should have no problem.  And that counts if it’s an old greybeard who learned his art with wet-plate processes and 98 degrees, diplomas and qualifications, or a little girl fresh out of school paying her way through college with a second hand mik-en-druk.  

This is a subjective industry, and qualifications and experience counts for none.  You as are good as your work, and if you want the jobs, constantly deliver good work.  If it pays the bills, great.  If it doesn’t, become an accountant.   

Photography is Art.  Hardly any artists are paying the bills with their art, only the privileged few.   If you are in this for the money, then I believe your value system is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liam – the “measurable minimum requirement” in this industry, as someone said, is the “form factor”.  The analogy with pro golfers I find very, very apt.  while a good amateur can get a lucky hole in one, maybe even win a tournament, it’s the Tigers and the Ernies of this world that keeps producing 95% of the time.  </p>
<p>the point still is if the pro-tog can keep his standard to a certain minimum, and that minimum is appreciably above average (even by the uneducated public), then that tog should have no problem.  And that counts if it’s an old greybeard who learned his art with wet-plate processes and 98 degrees, diplomas and qualifications, or a little girl fresh out of school paying her way through college with a second hand mik-en-druk.  </p>
<p>This is a subjective industry, and qualifications and experience counts for none.  You as are good as your work, and if you want the jobs, constantly deliver good work.  If it pays the bills, great.  If it doesn’t, become an accountant.   </p>
<p>Photography is Art.  Hardly any artists are paying the bills with their art, only the privileged few.   If you are in this for the money, then I believe your value system is wrong.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25366', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Benzol</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25362</link>
		<author>Benzol</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25362</guid>
		<description>Gerry: "If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough".

I like that! I do the same with my car. If the big shot dealer is not good enough at double the price, I go to the backyard mechanic who knows what he is doing and loves doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerry: &#8220;If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough&#8221;.</p>
<p>I like that! I do the same with my car. If the big shot dealer is not good enough at double the price, I go to the backyard mechanic who knows what he is doing and loves doing it.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25362', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25361</link>
		<author>Liam</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25361</guid>
		<description>Gerry, Happy with your sentiments BUT any industry that has a "pro" as a tag would have measurable minimum requirements. 

I train as well and am able to in good light enable a rank amateur to take extremely competent images. My issue is with the part timer (accountant by day) who has no overhead who is prepared to charge a mere pittance for competent work - yes i could become a part timer too and offer work at sub economic rates - but I have chosen to offer 100% dedication to my craft and am proud to do so - continually improving my craft. 

I do agree that you cannot expect to charge  R1000 an hour (for simple work)and complain but by the same token a part time "PRO" charging R100 an hour has taken it to the opposite extreme.
 
This will not change but luckily my corporates are aware of differance and will not be swayed from a professional business approach.

I am incredibly lucky that in spite of the sub economic part time pro's my personal business has grown and I am confident that this will continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerry, Happy with your sentiments BUT any industry that has a &#8220;pro&#8221; as a tag would have measurable minimum requirements. </p>
<p>I train as well and am able to in good light enable a rank amateur to take extremely competent images. My issue is with the part timer (accountant by day) who has no overhead who is prepared to charge a mere pittance for competent work - yes i could become a part timer too and offer work at sub economic rates - but I have chosen to offer 100% dedication to my craft and am proud to do so - continually improving my craft. </p>
<p>I do agree that you cannot expect to charge  R1000 an hour (for simple work)and complain but by the same token a part time &#8220;PRO&#8221; charging R100 an hour has taken it to the opposite extreme.</p>
<p>This will not change but luckily my corporates are aware of differance and will not be swayed from a professional business approach.</p>
<p>I am incredibly lucky that in spite of the sub economic part time pro&#8217;s my personal business has grown and I am confident that this will continue.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25361', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25360</link>
		<author>Gerry</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.techleader.co.za/rossallchorn/2009/03/20/is-tech-advancement-spelling-the-demise-of-some-professions/#comment-25360</guid>
		<description>Boy this is a topic of discussion I have often!

While I agree that a client cannot be educated past price point, it is certain that there IS a difference between the professional and the 20-something out of college thinking he is pro ‘tog.  The problem is, guess what, clients don’t care, most clients cannot / don’t want to tell the difference between a pro-tog photo and an amateur photo.  Clients don’t care about burned highlights, even lighting, skin smoothing and your R13 000 Elinchom light setups – most “clients” won’t know the difference between a good and a bad pic if it jumped up and bit them in the aperture.  

Flip side of the coin – I know some tog;s – good ones, to be sure – who complain because they don’t get any paying clients when they advertise their rates at R1 000 per hour.  They charge more than Trevor Manual’s financial consultants and then they cry the small guys are taking their businesses away.  Haai Shym!

Even worse are the BAD photogrpahers who spent tons of money in the latest and greatest and think now they are entitled to get well-paying jobs when my grandma takes better pics. And she’s dead!

I’m a reborn capitalist, fact is, adapt or die.  If the small kids are killing your business, then you better stop being a photographer and start being an artist – the cream will naturally rise.  If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy this is a topic of discussion I have often!</p>
<p>While I agree that a client cannot be educated past price point, it is certain that there IS a difference between the professional and the 20-something out of college thinking he is pro ‘tog.  The problem is, guess what, clients don’t care, most clients cannot / don’t want to tell the difference between a pro-tog photo and an amateur photo.  Clients don’t care about burned highlights, even lighting, skin smoothing and your R13 000 Elinchom light setups – most “clients” won’t know the difference between a good and a bad pic if it jumped up and bit them in the aperture.  </p>
<p>Flip side of the coin – I know some tog;s – good ones, to be sure – who complain because they don’t get any paying clients when they advertise their rates at R1 000 per hour.  They charge more than Trevor Manual’s financial consultants and then they cry the small guys are taking their businesses away.  Haai Shym!</p>
<p>Even worse are the BAD photogrpahers who spent tons of money in the latest and greatest and think now they are entitled to get well-paying jobs when my grandma takes better pics. And she’s dead!</p>
<p>I’m a reborn capitalist, fact is, adapt or die.  If the small kids are killing your business, then you better stop being a photographer and start being an artist – the cream will naturally rise.  If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough.
<p align="right"><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://techleader.co.za/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=25360', 400, 400)">(Report abuse)</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

