What are you really saying? Maybe the guys that buy the cheap stuff to start off their photography are also enthusiasts just like you but don’t have the financial muscles to buy the expensive stuff better still to pay for photography school.

Sometimes you just have to keep practicing then you might grasp the concept and get it right as they say practice makes perfect. Are you saying the Industry should just be reserved for the professionals? That would be ridiculous.

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Hi General. No I wasn’t saying that anything should be reserved for professionals. I’m stating my observations and seeking comments on the topic.

Sure everyone has to start somewhere, but what I’m saying is that the advancement in technology in the photographic industry is pushing the equipment prices down and putting them into increasingly more inexperienced hands.

This works productively by putting more cameras in other people’s talented and possibly experimental hands, but works destructively by taking highly paid (and deservedly so) work away from seasoned experts. Undiscerning clients (knowingly or not) are therefore faced with a more difficult choice and can quite easily result in inferior quality results.

Thats what I’m saying. No need to jump to conclusions mate

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@Ross
But then at the end of the day you have to present your work portfolio to your client just like any other industry, you will be hired on your results.
In the web & software development, some companies can ask to see work you have worked on before or you will be tested on site to see if you really say you are who you are. At the end of the day it still the client’s decision to make, if they want a costly season professional or experimental hands.
What would you do if you were a client, would you go for an expensive season professional or experimental hands that have potential?

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I would go for the professional, because I’d know the results will be predictable.

I don’t talk in absolutes though, and there are occasions where a less experienced photographer might be called upon.

I’ll say absolutely though that if I were to perform the role of agent for a big client, I would use a professional. No brainer.

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I will not call myself a professional cause I do not have a “degree” and do not make a living out of photography.
But…..I have been “photo-ing” since I was 15. Box camera, black&white, dark room, various fluids in various strength and temperature, hard/soft paper? Then came the 35mm: same processes but added cropping facilities. As one develops, one learns the mistakes in lighting and angles. Then came colour. No home dark room, too complicated and too expensive!! Off to the photo shop for develop and prints and later no prints but CD. Can do my own manipulation once again. Yippee, back in control.
Comes the digital camera. TOTAL CONTROL again. Shoot as much as you like, throw away as much as you like. Experiment with lighting, shadows, sun and sea, water on flowers, micro pics, faces, parties.
Join a photoclub, not one of these where digital photography is not considered photography. Yes, we do “lenscap” restrictions (no/little manipulation allowed).
Reading up on techniques, pixels, colouring
Am I -after 50 years- not entitled to promote myself as semi professional.
After all, “seeing” and taking the right shot” at the “right moment” is partly an art which one cannot learn in a technikon.

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Professional: engaged in a profession or engaging in as a profession or means of livelihood.

Hence me calling myself semi professional, as I only earn part of my income from the art. After spending at least 3 days per week for a few years, I think I earned that title

You sound like an experienced hobbyist. If you wanted to you could make money from your hobby, but as with some -and with the utmost respect- you enjoy it more that way.

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Since I have my digital camera (Sony Alpha), I have done some weddings and 21st parties for free (free meal and drinks included). At least half of them had a professional around doing the “official” stuff. Booooring classics. Got some accolades for many of my shots taken when the “posing” collapses into natural behaviour.

Had an exhibition on my Namaqualand shots. Well received but come to realise that you have to be in with the “who is who” to get official recognition. A little like people who paint or sculpture.

I rather do what I enjoy doing than creeping the right back site for “official” recognition. As a recognised professional one has to live up to expectations. I am still experimenting with light, colour and subjects.

The end of professional photography? Don’t think so. There are always people who pay for the signature on he pic, regardless the image. Just a different class.

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Perhaps potential clients need to be educated. In software, many clients are hoodwinked into being under-serviced by 20 year old part-timers with a pirate copy of Dreamweaver. Thats not software development, but to a lot of clients it is. Are those the clients you want to be working for? Ones that can’t tell the difference.

Digital music production technology has been around for decades, you don’t see more than a very few amateurs lasting long. I think it takes a certain mindset and talent to become a professional at anything and I think it shows at the end of the day. If you can take as good a picture with a R3 000 camera as with a R50 000 camera, than you’ve just made yourself more money by not having to buy expensive cameras… I seriously doubt this is possible though… professional gear is professional gear for many reasons.

I worked in the film industry for many years… yes, anyone CAN pick up R5 000 digicam and wack together a movie, but they inevitably turn out crap and will likely never look the same as a professionally produced film. It is possible to make a film thats ’supposed to look like it was shot on a handycam’ but those are really beside the point.

There is just such a vastly different approach in a professional mindset, in all fields, that it is unlikely that any person picking up a cheap camera will ever come close to producing professional looking pictures. If they’re really talented, and wanted to progress, they would tend toward and aspire to getting more professional level equipment…

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In my recent experience, I’ve found that even attempting to educate clients doesn’t get past the price point.

I’m not talking small clients either. Perhaps it’s the economic climate, but I adhere to SAFREA recommended “minimum” rates and people quoting half my prices are winning the jobs. Either they have not done their business calculations correctly, or they are shooting with something inferior (equipment/skill).

Joedamage, I would never speak in absolutes, and sure, there will be a place for the true professional, but anything below that is getting seriously thinned (from a viable business perspective).

Also, I don’t think the comparitive output from a R10k camera to a R80k camera can be measured up against video output. The quality difference is far less. It’s not apples with apples IMHO.

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Interesting blog!

I am also a ’semi professional’. I used to do motor racing photography, flogging prints to the racers and sponsors at race meetings. I had my own darkroom and the volume of work honed my skills really well. Then motor racing tanked in SA, and I gave up. I now have another hobby, and have gotten heavily into macrophotography through writing books on butterflies. As long as I was using film, I didn’t really ‘develop’ (sorry) my skills, because with slides the gap between clicking the shutter and seeing the results was quite long. But then I went digital…

I agree with what Benzol says above. Being able to see the results so fast allows you to make adjustments, and immediately see how they affect the end result. Plus there is so much you can do in post processing to make the image look really good. Fantastic! I am now taking way better shots than I used to, and am getting better all the time. Plus there is a huge community of other enthusiasts out there who are only too happy to give free advice. I learned all about Photoshop without going on a formal course. I also sell some pix…

I feel sorry for the old pros out there who sweated blood and hydroquinone through the long years of film’s dominance. What has happened to them, is rather like what would happen to the air travel industry tomorrow if someone invented cheap, safe, easy self-teleportation!

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@joedamage: I did some films on the old “double eight”, later single eight and latest some webcam. Filming is indeed a different sport altogether.
Cutting a few single eights in pieces and sticking the pieces in the right order to tell a holiday story is vastly different from working digital stuff, using Pinnacle, adding sound and all. Lots of fun but never claiming near professional.
After all…it is the shots you take that matter and give the pleasure.

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You speak here of gaurenteed, product with a proffesional. Thats just bolox, Just beacause someones spent some cash on getting a degrea, does’nt mean they are anygood. Some of the best photographers of the centually have been self taught, i’m thinking, ansel adams, anni lebowits and countless others. I think there will always be a place for the profesional, who’s good and is competitive however they got to call themselves profesional. I’ve been taking photos for a good few years, first with an old camera my grandfather owned, I’ve learnd alot. But since switching to digital my pace of learning techniques has grown tripple fold. I think you profesional is going to have to work that much harder to compeate and that is always a good thing, it pushes the envelope.

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@brigs; where do I refer to a guarantee? Your chances certainly are higher with a seasoned professional though. Also, I did not refer to a degrea(sic) either. A lot of the world’s top professionals are self taught.

@Steve; interesting view. I also did a lot of motorsport.

Everyone, please note… I was not venting, nor definding the pros nor amatuers… I was stating some percieved observations.

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@Ross; nice to meet another old motor racing photog! I wonder did we once rub shoulders at the old Kyalami Ford Corner, long lens on one tripod-supported, remote controlled F2AS pointed at the bend in the hope of capturing a prang (amazing how racers loved to buy pix of themselves seeing their arses) and the other body with a fast 300mm panning around the bend, whilst keeping a third eye out for someone losing it big time and heading your way? Those were the days!

@brigs; I basically agree with what you say and I see Ross agrees with you that many top photogs are self taught. Perhaps the advent of digital, and the way it has brought high skill to a huge number of photogs, will result in far more self taught practioners of the art. But I also think it’ll reinforce the point that it’s what the image contains that counts and not what it was taken with. The technical skills may become universal but the eye and the creative brain behind it will still separate the unique from the mundane. I think the Ansel Adamses and Annie Leibowitzes of the future will still rise to the top, and because the technician aspects of photography are going to become much less of a barrier to entry, we are going to see a lot more real artists emerging. We are in for an exciting time for photography.

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I’m not a photographer! I take (sometimes) happy snaps for memories. As an outsider, I will assert that you can tell the difference between those who understand what they are doing and the keen hobbyists. Unfortunately us rabble mostly can’t afford the services of a real pro, but I, for one, can see and appreciate the difference.

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Sensing the moment with an eye for the right shot is the challenge.
The right equipment merely increases the quality of the picture.

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An interesting topic. As an amateur taking images for 20 years and a full time freelance photographer for the past 6 years. My comments are such: the term professional would in my opinion refer to a person who offers a quality service in return for renumeration - no service no pay. The problem with the keen enthuisiast / semipro??? / enthusiast is not always the quality of image and composure but the repeatable nature of such for a client. Any good photographer will take great images but a full time pro will take them more often. Like a pro golfer vs an amateur is not the ability of their best but the consistency of the worst. My problem is that a pro photographer cannot compete with free - would the semi pro / enthyuisiast still be as an attractive option if they were charging a fee of some sort. It is one of the only industries which can be marginalised by the semi skilled (as one post says take as much as you like and delete as much as you like - well you will eventually with a little expertise achieve an acceptable result. You would not accept this approach from a semi skilled lawywr, doctor, mechanic etc. but we seem to be able to accept this from well meaning and often very skilled amateurs. I for one am extremely happy with the growth of photography as this is good for the industry anyway.

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Boy this is a topic of discussion I have often!

While I agree that a client cannot be educated past price point, it is certain that there IS a difference between the professional and the 20-something out of college thinking he is pro ‘tog. The problem is, guess what, clients don’t care, most clients cannot / don’t want to tell the difference between a pro-tog photo and an amateur photo. Clients don’t care about burned highlights, even lighting, skin smoothing and your R13 000 Elinchom light setups – most “clients” won’t know the difference between a good and a bad pic if it jumped up and bit them in the aperture.

Flip side of the coin – I know some tog;s – good ones, to be sure – who complain because they don’t get any paying clients when they advertise their rates at R1 000 per hour. They charge more than Trevor Manual’s financial consultants and then they cry the small guys are taking their businesses away. Haai Shym!

Even worse are the BAD photogrpahers who spent tons of money in the latest and greatest and think now they are entitled to get well-paying jobs when my grandma takes better pics. And she’s dead!

I’m a reborn capitalist, fact is, adapt or die. If the small kids are killing your business, then you better stop being a photographer and start being an artist – the cream will naturally rise. If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough.

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Gerry, Happy with your sentiments BUT any industry that has a “pro” as a tag would have measurable minimum requirements.

I train as well and am able to in good light enable a rank amateur to take extremely competent images. My issue is with the part timer (accountant by day) who has no overhead who is prepared to charge a mere pittance for competent work - yes i could become a part timer too and offer work at sub economic rates - but I have chosen to offer 100% dedication to my craft and am proud to do so - continually improving my craft.

I do agree that you cannot expect to charge R1000 an hour (for simple work)and complain but by the same token a part time “PRO” charging R100 an hour has taken it to the opposite extreme.

This will not change but luckily my corporates are aware of differance and will not be swayed from a professional business approach.

I am incredibly lucky that in spite of the sub economic part time pro’s my personal business has grown and I am confident that this will continue.

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Gerry: “If the small kids keep pushing you into second place, you are just not good enough”.

I like that! I do the same with my car. If the big shot dealer is not good enough at double the price, I go to the backyard mechanic who knows what he is doing and loves doing it.

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Liam – the “measurable minimum requirement” in this industry, as someone said, is the “form factor”. The analogy with pro golfers I find very, very apt. while a good amateur can get a lucky hole in one, maybe even win a tournament, it’s the Tigers and the Ernies of this world that keeps producing 95% of the time.

the point still is if the pro-tog can keep his standard to a certain minimum, and that minimum is appreciably above average (even by the uneducated public), then that tog should have no problem. And that counts if it’s an old greybeard who learned his art with wet-plate processes and 98 degrees, diplomas and qualifications, or a little girl fresh out of school paying her way through college with a second hand mik-en-druk.

This is a subjective industry, and qualifications and experience counts for none. You as are good as your work, and if you want the jobs, constantly deliver good work. If it pays the bills, great. If it doesn’t, become an accountant.

Photography is Art. Hardly any artists are paying the bills with their art, only the privileged few. If you are in this for the money, then I believe your value system is wrong.

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I have the same problem with websites. I give a quote for professional design and development, and I’m trumped by a student who knows frontpage. Usually a relative of the business owner.

You lose out once, but after a while the client returns because the kid has lost and no-one can update the website. Luckily website have a long term nature, unlike photos. And Ross, is your free blog not taking a food of the mouth of a professional degreed journalist?

That said - I am always horrified by the prices that the professional photographers charge. 50% of shoots don’t require any specialised knowledge of composition or lighting. Because of the nature of photography and digital media, usually if you take enough pictures in different conditions you will by chance end up with something good. Many client’s don’t need consistency, they need one good picture.

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Hi April, yeah, the website industry is also feeling this sort of effect. I know because that is 90% of my work, but as you say, it’s a bit harder to fake knowing what you’re doing, and eventually the truth will become apparent.

About my blog taking food from Journos… hmmm, I guess the same can be said about this blog. And iStockphoto from commission photographers. I think there are different market segments for a reason, and as such I don’t feel guilty about blogging about my work, for my clients and for free. The profit comes to me when my clients do well, and reward me by requesting more services of me.

The prices photographers charge are often taken from their experience. I know some guys that won’t get out of bed in the morning for less than R20,000. They have 30yrs experience and their equipment is up to date, insured and they know how to use it better than most.

Jensen Button gets paid more by Virgin to race his F1 car than Frikkie van der Merwe gets to race his GoKart at the buzzy circuit for a reason. Skill, experience, and consistent results. Okay, maybe Button was a bad example, but you catch my drift I’m sure.

Have you ever seen a complex breakdown of a photographer’s costs? If you take everything into consideration, and you’re shooting with a top of the range Canon / Nikon (lets not even talk Hasselblad for now) alongside the laptops, cards, professional rigging, lighting, reflectors, umbrellas, strobes etc. and calculate the insurance needed to take it out the door, plus everything else… you’ll realise that it doesn’t make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr, and then you need to make a profit too…

Simple economics, and perhaps standing back and establishing if you’re comparing apples to bananas or if they’re the same fruit.

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“you’ll realise that it doesn’t make economic sense to charge less than R800/hr”

I’d love to make that! But right now, if I do a quater of that, I’m doing well. After spending over R100k on equipment, thats a lot of hours before I make a profit!

But I’m getting there!

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You’re sad? You shoulda seen the Worshipful Company of Cobblers (by Appointment to Her Royal Majesty) when riff raff started automating the making of shoes . . .

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Pete, that is why one needs to remain flexible. I’m not sad. Are you?

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I agree with you Ross, I am still in favor of a manual camera, setting the proper lightning, focusing on my own, etc…the accomplishment is there when you’ve taken a good shot. Although I also have a DSLR now, I am not putting all my works on it, because for me there is an ‘imperfection’ when you are using one.

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